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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Even though it's chambered, this is the muffler I wish came in a smaller version. You would need to fabricate a 90° to a 180° bend going into the muffler, but it would also tuck under the rear bumper nicely like stock.

Flowmaster 80 series
 

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Even though it's chambered, this is the muffler I wish came in a smaller version. You would need to fabricate a 90° to a 180° bend going into the muffler, but it would also tuck under the rear bumper nicely like stock.

Flowmaster 80 series
What about the 44 series
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
What about the 44 series
It's possible if you can figure out placement. The inlet on the factory muffler is angled up, so if you cut it off right where it enters the muffler, it's possible you could tuck in up there, but I'm not sure about the length which might be too long to get two 90° bends coming out. Lots of possibilities if you can figure out routing. The biggest challenge is using the factory dual exhaust tips. If we were talking about a single inlet, single outlet muffler this would be alot easier, lol.

 

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I'd have to respectfully disagree with TrashPanda about the performance gain from the exhaust change. I have personally dyno'd many cars over the years before/after catback exhaust and have seen anywhere from 5-25 whp gains. Usually if the car is turbocharged, it will see the greatest gains in the low-end of the RPM curve first. Intake usually gains in the upper RPMs, conversely.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
I'd have to respectfully disagree with TrashPanda about the performance gain from the exhaust change. I have personally dyno'd many cars over the years before/after catback exhaust and have seen anywhere from 5-25 whp gains. Usually if the car is turbocharged, it will see the greatest gains in the low-end of the RPM curve first. Intake usually gains in the upper RPMs, conversely.
I know what he's saying and he's not really wrong, just looking at in a different way. There is a post a page back where I tried to explain how we were saying different things, but were both right. The main difference relates to how and engine is dynoed vs how a vehicle is dynoed. An engine by itself cannot make more power without tuning, but an engine in a vehicle with factory intake and exhaust can make more power without tuning simply because it's already been restricted.
 
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I know what he's saying and he's not really wrong, just looking at in a different way. There is a post a page back where I tried to explain how we were saying different things, but were both right. The main difference relates to how and engine is dynoed vs how a vehicle is dynoed. An engine by itself cannot make more power without tuning, but an engine in a vehicle with factory intake and exhaust can make more power without tuning simply because it's already been restricted.
That's why I always specify WHP when talking about gains, since it makes it obvious that I am talking about gains at the wheels and not at the crank.
 

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I know the LS and LT don't have the same dual exhaust ports/tips but do they also have the same muffler with dual exhaust flow? I'm a future TB owner and this post is very informative.
 

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I know the LS and LT don't have the same dual exhaust ports/tips but do they also have the same muffler with dual exhaust flow? I'm a future TB owner and this post is very informative.
I don't have time to look under my LT, but here is what a quick search shows.

 

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I think we are just looking at this differently. For example the engine in a C8 is rated at 495hp/470tq, but adding a new exhaust system can add as much as 30hp without any tune. Does the engine make more power? I'd have to say no like what your saying. Did it free up hp that was already there by removing restrictions. I'd have to say yes of course because it wouldn't dyno at 425hp if something didn't improve. I've seen many dyno tests of engines on stands and engines already in vehicles. Engines by themselves don't gain hp/ tq without a tune, but when we're talking about production vehicles there are all kinds of restrictions in the intake and exhaust that when opened up do increase the hp/tq numbers. The power was already there, it was just restricted or "reduced" due to the manufacturer adding sound control in the form of baffles, anti resonance chambers, etc in the intake and exhaust. Removing these restrictions just makes the engine breathe easier which adds back hp/tq that was robbed when they tried to make everything quiet.
Happy we're on the same page with knowledge base. Some here have already hopped on the oh shit it can increase my power to 165hp train.... That thinking was always really rough on the camaro forums still is. People think a Downpipe and cat-back is gonna give them more HP then what the factory says. They get very angry when they go to a dyno and learn it's generally not even close with most mid to low tiered performance vehicles. I've caught dyno operators fudging numbers at dyno days before... never a cool thing to do I was a 1/4 mile track junkie for a good 4 yrs until I got the TB and I can't count how many people would lose their shit and go ballistic when they kept losing to what they thought were lower powered cars. I've seen it with some high powered vehicles as well.
 

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I'd have to respectfully disagree with TrashPanda about the performance gain from the exhaust change. I have personally dyno'd many cars over the years before/after catback exhaust and have seen anywhere from 5-25 whp gains. Usually if the car is turbocharged, it will see the greatest gains in the low-end of the RPM curve first. Intake usually gains in the upper RPMs, conversely.
Thinking you missed my intention adding an intake and exhaust won't get you more HP or TQ at the crank then the manufacturer states. It will gain you more whp/wtq absolutely but if you've dyno'd many cars you know the bulk think differently until they actually do a baseline. I've seen anomalies sure but those were on Performance vehicles which the TB with it's 9 speed or CVT is not.
 

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Thinking you missed my intention adding an intake and exhaust won't get you more HP or TQ at the crank then the manufacturer states. It will gain you more whp/wtq absolutely but if you've dyno'd many cars you know the bulk think differently until they actually do a baseline. I've seen anomalies sure but those were on Performance vehicles which the TB with it's 9 speed or CVT is not.
You're right and I'm not trying to target you specifically. I just know from my personal experience owning and modding turbo cars that there is definitely gains to be had without a tune when dealing with intake/exhaust. The problem is that without good testing methodology, we can only guess as to what will produce gains. There's a good chance that a less restrictive exhaust will produce good gains, but we don't have any proof yet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
Happy we're on the same page with knowledge base. Some here have already hopped on the oh shit it can increase my power to 165hp train.... That thinking was always really rough on the camaro forums still is. People think a Downpipe and cat-back is gonna give them more HP then what the factory says. They get very angry when they go to a dyno and learn it's generally not even close with most mid to low tiered performance vehicles. I've caught dyno operators fudging numbers at dyno days before... never a cool thing to do I was a 1/4 mile track junkie for a good 4 yrs until I got the TB and I can't count how many people would lose their shit and go ballistic when they kept losing to what they thought were lower powered cars. I've seen it with some high powered vehicles as well.
I also did bracket racing at Sonoma Raceway aka Sears Point for many years. Running the 1/4 mile gives you a good baseline to start with. When you add anything that "should" produce more power it will be evident on the time slip using 60ft, 1/8 mile, 1/4 mile and trap speed. You can actually use those numbers to calculate increases or losses more accurately than a dyno. I really miss running 11's in my old Z06, good times.
 
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I also did bracket racing at Sonoma Raceway aka Sears Point for many years. Running the 1/4 mile gives you a good baseline to start with. When you add anything that "should" produce more power it will be evident on the time slip using 60ft, 1/8 mile, 1/4 mile and trap speed. You can actually use those numbers to calculate increases or losses more accurately than a dyno. I really miss running 11's in my old Z06, good times.
Yup, that's how I did back to back testing for quick mods like air intake or filter changes. If it's not back to back or at least same day the results aren't comparable same with Dyno results.
 

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I'd love to do a comparison I have the HPTuners equipment just not the desire to have an exhaust like a tractor sound again your while awesome custom setup reminded me of a straight piped 2.0t camaro. I never hit 11s but did hit low 12s in the old 2.0T Camaro though. Full bolt-ons and tune on 93. I do have a filter sitting in a box still god I'm so damn lazy... I might go for a street night for shits and giggles I miss it atleast I won't need a helmet and if I did get below 14s somehow I'd ask for the slip and leave voluntarily if I ever hit that in this thing lol.
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
I'd love to do a comparison I have the HPTuners equipment just not the desire to have an exhaust like a tractor sound again your while awesome custom setup reminded me of a straight piped 2.0t camaro. I never hit 11s but did hit low 12s in the old 2.0T Camaro though. Full bolt-ons and tune on 93. I do have a filter sitting in a box still god I'm so damn lazy... I might go for a street night for shits and giggles I miss it atleast I won't need a helmet and if I did get below 14s somehow I'd ask for the slip and leave voluntarily if I ever hit that in this thing lol.
Drop in K&N, then remove rear section of exhaust with muffler where the 2 bolt slip fit flange is and run a pass or 2. If you have another car or friend with you it would be possible to do a comparison with/without exhaust. It's actually quieter with the whole section removed than the setup I'm trying. For safety I suggest using a small piece of wire to support the exhaust pipe like a temp hanger. There is a flex joint in between the cat and the front muffler/resonator so the exhaust flexes pretty easy. I think anyone who tries it will be surprised how much more low end power there is. 🤯
 

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There's no way this engine can sound any more like a tractor than the stock 2005 Dodge Neon SRT4. It literally sounded like a tractor.

 

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I never was much for 1/4 mile or bracket racing. When I was in my late 20’s early 30’s, I street raced imports. I used to surprise the hell out of people with my little 1996 Honda Prelude VTEC. Had a H22A1 that put out 160 whp. Only mods were header, exhaust and intake.
Now being into Subaru Turbo’d motors, putting and exhaust = 0 gains. If you add an intake, you best get a tune. Even the with exhaust and intake you might see 10whp. But my 2021 Legacy XT will remain stock. Might get some wheels but that will be the extent.
 
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